Doris Thomas: Faith, Strength, and Never the Less
Walking into Never the Less, a faith-based nonprofit organization that provides programs for fourth- through eleventh-grade girls in the tri-state area, is a lot like walking into a church: the atmosphere is welcoming and bright; in lieu of stained glass, beautiful paintings and prints depicting strong women decorate the walls; and at the center of it all, one can only approach the equivalent of a preacher – founder Ms. Doris Thomas – with a sense of joyful reverence. Working through her faith and the footprints of the women who showed her the way, Ms. Doris talked to us at Never the Less’ new location about her faith, her accomplishments, and her hopes to come.
Interview by Blaire Bartish. Photography by Stacy Wegley.
What experiences did you have as a girl that you want to share with your students at Never the Less?
As a teen growing up, I had very low self-esteem. On my mother’s side of the family, we had these large legs. My girlfriends all had very thin legs; I had my mother’s legs. And people would always comment on them: “Girl, you got them big legs!” I thought I was being made fun of. I felt very low about that – I felt ashamed. I wanted to wear pants all the time; I didn’t like the attention my legs brought me. I became kind of withdrawn, not having a clue that people were admiring the legs! Every time someone would say something about my legs, I would go more into my shell. So if I had to tell my girls today anything, I would tell them: “Whatever it is that is a part of who you are, be proud of that. Look at it as being uniquely you, and stop making body comparisons. You are not that other person; that other person is not you. And if you think that you want to be like her, she’s probably thinking the exact same thing about you.”
Why is it so important for you to mentor young women?
I never thought I wanted to, but when I became a member of the church I have now been a part of for almost forty years, I joined their jail ministry. We would go to the juvenile correction center, and that’s where I just fell in love with the girls. I took their pain when I heard their stories, and it touched me in such a special way. It was like, “My gosh, you’re so young! And to have gone through what you’ve been through, it’s heartbreaking.” That’s when I knew they needed an advocate, a mentor, and a [person to tell them,] “This has to change; this is not right for you.” That’s when it touched my heart that I should mentor them.
So was it right away that you and Carole started Never the Less?
No, we mentored for two years through the church. But when I turned 60 – I’m 71 now – I was sitting in church, and the Holy Spirit just spoke to my heart [and said,] “My girls need me. I hear their cry. I see them. Let them know that I love them and that they are never the less: They are always more in my eyes.” And I left church that day knowing I was starting Never the Less. I had the name – the Holy Spirit had given me the name – and I knew it was for girls, but I didn’t know what to do. He didn’t give me any more than that! [Laughs.]
But over the years, it has evolved to where it is now. I’m always asking, “Am I doing this correctly? Is this Your vision?” But when I think about how things have fallen into place, it’s like, “Nothing but God!” I know that’s all of Him. Even when we were going to sign the lease for this location, we were originally on the eleventh floor with four rooms; we were so excited. But as we left, I said, “It’s too small!” [The people I was with] said, “It’s so much bigger than the last place – how can you say it’s too small?” And I said, “The Spirit says it’s too small!” [Laughs.] So I called the landlord and said, “I have a question to ask you – I don’t know if anyone’s ever asked you this before, but do you have a place that’s bigger but at the same price?” And he said, “No, no one’s ever asked me that. But I like you, so yes, I do.” And everybody was like, “Whaaaat?!” But I was like, “I told you what He said!”
Where did you get your sense of faith from?
My mother was a true believer. She was Baptist, but she sent us to a Catholic school because it was a better education. So first through twelfth grade, I was always at St. Mary’s. That is where I learned what faith was about, but I didn’t have an inkling of what faith actually meant until I joined Christ Emmanuel Fellowship Church. I knew the word faith, but I didn’t know that faith comes to you by being tested and your reaction to the test you are going through. So my faith was developed there. I learned that if you believe, you don’t worry. I learned early that I believe because I don’t want to worry.
Here with the girls, we teach them that same concept. We are faith-based, but we try not to change any person. We give them love and show them that there are alternatives to their actions. You do not have to behave the way someone may think you should; you’re your own person. Do what feels right to your gut. And if you’re governed by love, you’re going to do that thing that’s right all the time.
What are some of your favorite success stories?
My husband is my number one success story. I was a single parent for so many years and raised three of my children by myself. I was too busy working two jobs and trying to raise these children correctly to even think of dating. So one day, I said to God, “You know, when I do get married, I want a man who can really handle me. He has to have a great sense of humor, and he has to have a job, good wit, and so on and so forth.” And then I met him! He’s my second husband, but we’ve been married for twenty years. I don’t have to say my children, but of course, they are too.
But then I’ve had so many success stories with Never the Less that I don’t know where to begin. Every move has been successful without any effort at all. In January, there were only three of us: Carole Daniels, my co-founder, and Bill Schretter, who came from BOLD. And we said, “We’ve got to get a board.” Within three months, we had 10 people. And those people came together, and voila! We had the money to pay for the rent here for a year and not worry. So everything is coming together: the governing, the programming, the marketing, it all came together so beautifully. Those are successful things that I say “Nothing but God.” And I give God all glory because it was nothing I can even take credit for doing. When it comes to my greatest accomplishment, though, it is being obedient to God by starting Never the Less.
So a lot of girls have come through Never the Less’s programs?
That’s where we’re moving on to next. With COVID, we lost all our girls, and it’s been very difficult to get them back. The girls don’t feel like going to an afterschool program; they’ve just become so comfortable going home. But we had a pilot program this summer at Woodward for our jobs and career readiness program, and that was pretty successful. We now have eight girls from Woodward here, but our biggest concern is transportation. We are now trusting God to bless us with a fifteen-seat van so we can pick girls up and drop them off, especially in the winter. They can walk here, but we need to get them home too, especially if we want them to come from different communities. We’re trying to figure that out. The numbers are small, but they are trickling in. I don’t have any doubt that the place will fill up. We’re very new in the community, so we’re trying to let people know that we’re here and what services we have for their daughters.
Where do you see Never the Less in five years?
In the short term, I see Never the Less having at least 15 to 20 girls in each of our classroom spaces, offering two different classes per age group on different nights. I also see Never the Less having a contract with Hamilton County and Cincinnati Public Schools. I see us having our doors open seven days a week so the girls can come up and just relax and have tutoring and extracurricular activities. I’d also like to see us in the process of building or purchasing a transitional home with acreage. In Cincinnati, there’s a shortage of transitional homes. I would like for ours to be one where the girls have animals and do things with their hands.
Long term, I’d like to see Never the Less have not only a location here but also in another part of the city. I look forward to the day when we will have the funding to hire teachers on staff full-time without really “borrowing” our teachers for a few months of summer. I’d like to have paid psychologists on staff all of the time. I want us to have a relationship with other organizations and businesses for job training. I want to see the girls go to the post office. I want to see them going to P&G so that they can learn from the mailroom on up and spark their enthusiasm to be better and see themselves differently. And I would like our name to be as well-known as the Boys and Girls Club.
In what ways are your girls helping create or co-create programming?
Our mantra here is: “Your voice is your power, but use your power to speak its truth.” And our motto is: “Once Never the Less, always Never the Less.” It doesn’t matter how old you are – you can always come back here, no matter what you’re going through, and we’ll always stand beside you and be with you. We have girls who have graduated from our programs and become mothers; we’ve been at their births and baby showers. Two of them just buried their mothers, and we were there for the funerals through the whole process. The girls always come back when we need them.
It seems like things have been manifesting so far!
You know, you have to speak those things. Like I told the landlord, “You know, we’re going to have that office across the hall! We’re going to have all our classrooms there!” [Laughs.] But I really believe that. When I say the contract with C.P.S., it’s because there are so many girls who are truant because of so many reasons. When you’re suspended for ten days, and you’re not learning at all, I would love to have some type of engagement where they’re required to come here instead of being at home. So if you spend those ten days in our diversion program, you’re learning, you’re socializing, and receiving the love you might not be receiving elsewhere.
Who is an influential woman in your life?
First, my mother: From her, I draw my strength and my faith. Secondly, I’m going to say all ancestors. I mean that with sincerity of heart, for having the tenacity, strength, courage, and willpower to endure; those who know their past but live in their present.
To Michelle Obama – I give her credit for exemplifying what a lady is supposed to look like – how she is supposed to raise her children, and how to stand and honor her people, her country, and her friendships.
I give honor to my friends who understand me and speak truth to me. And lastly, to my daughter, whom I look at and wish that when I was her age, I was her. She has not a clue how much I honor her for everything; the way she is with her family, the way she is spiritually, the way she cares for children, and her servitude.